


The Sides that Aren’t Pt 2: The Shorts “Sides”

by Treeni



Series: Sanders Sides Theories [4]
Category: Sanders Sides (Web Series)
Genre: Character Analysis, Character Study, DYAD, Pryce - Freeform, Teal - Freeform, Theories, andy - Freeform
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2020-08-25
Updated: 2020-08-25
Packaged: 2021-03-06 15:54:17
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 1
Words: 5,265
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/26101492
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/Treeni/pseuds/Treeni
Summary: The muddying of fiction and reality in Sanders Sides and how it’s important.
Series: Sanders Sides Theories [4]
Series URL: https://archiveofourown.org/series/1895077
Kudos: 6





	The Sides that Aren’t Pt 2: The Shorts “Sides”

**Author's Note:**

> I wanted to post these somewhere people felt a bit more open about commenting or criticizing. I'd love to talk about what others' opinions on what could happen and what they think will happen. Follow the series, not the story if you want to stay up to date. I consider each of these theories stand alone, even when referencing each other because you do not need to read the others to read the individual theories.
> 
> Please also remember that these are just theories, essentially analysis I do for fun. I don’t expect them to be a hundred percent correct by any means. If I did, I wouldn’t make my predictions so specific. I am honestly just as excited to see where I went wrong as where I went right. ^-^ Also, thanks for reading!

Okay, let’s start by clarifying that I am not here to try and argue that the shorts sides, such as Teal, Dyad, Pyrce, and Andy are secretly Sanders Sides sides or anything. In fact, if you read part one, you’ll know that I already delved into the differences between Virgil and Andy to try and specifically define the differences between what makes a Side vs a Shorts side. You can breathe now, it’s okay.

What I am here to tell you is much more complicated than that actually. So strap in because if you thought you were on the crazy train while reading through my past theories, I promise you haven’t seen the half of it yet.

Let’s start on what we know. Thomas Sanders is an actor who has made video shorts on vine since 2013. He later started on Youtube where he created the show Sanders Sides that featured characters that his base would have already recognized from his shorts. This is all very straightforward and anyone who has seen the series should know this already.

Here’s where it starts to get complicated however. You see, by creating Sanders Sides, Thomas effectively created blurred the lines of reality and fiction. Though the community refers to the characterized Thomas featured in Sanders Sides colloquially as c!Thomas to create a separation between the character and the actual person. That line is… fuzzy, as is often the case when actors play themselves in fiction. Things that happen real Thomas are often referenced in Sanders Sides in regards to happening to c!Thomas as well, such as appearing on a Disney show. In fact, the Sanders Sides had begun essentially as a vlog for real Thomas to talk about real experiences with fictional characters that represented facets of his personality.

(No one talks about this part, but he used characters he already created as representatives of traits, rather than the embodiments of them and we’re still seeing the effects that their superficial attempts to embody singular traits are having on the multidimensional characters recently. Patton’s recent breakdown is a prime example of the problems it brings. I’ll discuss this further in future theories, but it’s something to keep in the back of your mind.)

However, given that real Thomas was creating the Sanders Sides vlogs with the character Sides already having an answer to c!Thomas’ proposed questions, the vlogs inherently already combined reality and fiction. That was essentially the point. Yet, not everything that happens to c!Thomas is real either. Some of the events and problems he approaches the sides with are entirely fake, but plausibly real. The wedding for example was a plausible issue, something that could happen in real life, but it was entirely fabricated. The person who played Lee at the end of POF was the photographer for Roman’s birthday photoshoot. There was no wedding and Alfred Hitchcock has been dead since 1980, so there was no call back either. This means that there is in-universe cannon that differentiates c!Thomas from real Thomas.

However, there is a problem in the fact that the Thomas we see in Sanders shorts is also referred to as c!Thomas for two main reasons. 1, the shorts are supposed to take place in an entirely separate universe from Sanders Sides (I know what I said about Remy last theory, I promise I’m getting there) 2, the characterized Thomas in the shorts does not have a canonical narrative, he exists as an entity we can project onto and relate with. In fact, for clarity’s sake I will thus be referring to the characterized Thomas from Sanders Sides as c!Thomas and the characterized Thomas from the shorts as c2!Thomas.

Essentially, c!Thomas is a representative for real Thomas, a fictional embodiment that isn’t completely removed from reality, but exists in a fictional setting. c2!Thomas is nearly entirely fictional and the character’s only call to reality is that he represents real ideas. In fact, he’s so fictional that his reality is fluid and essentially is adapted to whatever idea each individual video is trying to portray. So while c!Thomas is a specific projection of Thomas in Sanders Sides, dealing with the Sides who the audience often relates to more than c!Thomas because we join them on their journey of self-awareness, alternatively c2!Thomas is a character for the audience to project onto who has no specific cannon as each video is made as a complete entity. 

Essentially, the individual Sanders Shorts are to Sanders Sides as a joke is to a novel. 

Okay, before we move on let’s review: Thomas is not c!Thomas, but they’re not entirely separate from each other, but Thomas has a much greater degree of separation c2!Thomas, who exists in Sanders Shorts. Thus, Sanders Shorts is further removed from Thomas’ reality than Sanders Sides. However, Sanders Shorts supposedly exists in a different universe than Sanders sides. Yet, we know Sanders Shorts and Sanders Sides are intrinsically connected because Sanders Shorts is still Logan, Patton, and Roman’s origin story from the perspective of reality.

So why is this important?

Well, I believe that the shows exist in different universes because Sanders Shorts is the fiction of Sanders Sides.

Going back to my joke to novel comparison, consider the fact that while jokes are complete entities on their own, they also often exist within novels as a part of them.

Think about it for a moment. c!Thomas interacts directly with the Sanders Sides characters in two realities already. He interacts with them in his own reality and he interacts with them in their reality (with some crossover). Patton eats c!Thomas’ leftovers, Logan absolutely devours a jar of crofters (which we should assume is real because they had to use a stand-in image to represent a flavor they admitted to being unable to procure at a real store). On top of that, the episode where the sides answered fan’s questions also had them interacting some with actual reality, causing further distortion between reality and fiction. So canonically speaking, the sides have some ability to interact beyond the realm of fiction. They exist beyond c!Thomas’ realm of thought and imagination, though how much is debatable. On top of that, c!Thomas already has interacted with them directly within the mindscape as well. Though, it was shown after the courtroom scene in [“Selfishness vs. Selflessness”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FiauvHYa21G8%3Ft%3D2052&t=YjYxN2JhYTAwNTllMTcxZDFlMjA0M2I5MzE3NjQ3YTdjMGJiYmQwNSxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) that c!Thomas interacting in the Side’s reality doesn’t necessitate his physical form entering. ~~(However, I wouldn’t discount this possibility entirely given that he had to “sink out” of Virgil’s room, meaning theoretically that the courtroom could have been something fictional that Janus summoned into c!Thomas’ reality rather than c!Thomas actually “going” anywhere.)~~ Yet, the interactions in the courtroom were still ultimately real to c!Thomas, they had real effects on both his mental health and a decision he made within his reality.

So after going over what we don’t know, let’s go back to what we do know. Despite all of the ambiguity, we know that Roman as creativity still specifically creates fiction. Roman’s Christmas present to Logan for example, was a fictional piece of work where Logan acts as a stand-in for Watson. We know that the Sides originated in the Sanders Shorts, while being considered more fictional than Sanders Sides, their origins cannot be removed from each other. In fact, we even know that c!Thomas created vines and Sanders Shorts because it was confirmed and discussed in [“Embarrassing Phases”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FVjwlmNjEK8w%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D887&t=NzkwYWI4ZDRlNDFjOTI3MTdjYzEyZGM5ZmNjOGU3NmYwNWI5NGU0Myxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) where c!Thomas talks about some of the content he created he finds “cringy” looking back on. In a show absolutely littered with hints, displaying the fact that c!Thomas canonically made the same Sanders Shorts episodes as real Thomas, is a fairly big one.

So, at this point we have confirmed that Sanders Sides and Sanders shorts literally do not exist within the same reality because Sanders Shorts exist as fiction within Sanders Sides. With this being the case, it means that Roman and Remus had an effect on what was being created in Sanders Shorts from the perspective of Sanders Sides, which brings me to my next point.

Roman and Remus have summoning abilities, they all do, but Roman and Remus have been shown to have a specific affinity for it. Roman is shown to summon puppies for example. So where is the line drawn on that ability? Can they summon props for c!Thomas to interact with specifically? People? Actually, yes. Leslie Odom, Jr’s appearance in [“Putting Others First”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FKCr3SN6vWFQ%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D3057&t=NGQ0Y2M2ZDg2YzQxNTk0YjQ0MzIyYTg0MWJlM2RiOTdiYzM5ZGU0NSxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) proves that real people, or at least characterized versions of real people can be summoned in Sanders Sides.

So then, I ask you, what exactly stops Roman or Remus from creating and summoning a side?

The answer is: absolutely nothing. In fact, I believe Remus has already done it. 

If you’re not quite understanding what I am implying yet, I am here to tell you that c!Thomas’ creativity, Remus, made specifically Teal, Andy, and Dyad. (Pryce is a little bit more ambiguous, mainly due to Roman’s acting ability and Pryce’s limited interactions recently.)

We know it was not always the case that the Sides and the Shorts sides were different. The Sides still showed up as themselves, or at least, as characterized versions of themselves in Sanders Shorts for a while in the first season of Sanders Sides. However, those characterized versions are decidedly not Teal, Andy, or Dyad. These were characterized versions who were inherently funny and a call back to the Sides as they were before they appeared in Sanders Sides. I believe the best way to read the Sides in Sanders Shorts pre-outfit change is Virgil, Roman, Patton, and Logan acting as fictional versions of themselves (aka, Anxiety, Prince, Dad, and Teacher).

A good example of this would be the Sanders Short episode [“A Dark Rescue”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F7ZKvh7okxsY%3Ft%3D93&t=ODEzZGU3NjE1NTIwNDdkNzhlNWFjYTBjYmIyNjE3MTA2MzQyOTkyNixlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939). The Anxiety character is in conflict with the Prince character. The characters both scowl and show specific emotions beyond filling a “role”. The Anxiety character pouts and the Prince character’s voice cracks with emotion. In addition, the doll the Prince character was rescuing from the Anxiety character shows personal interactions beyond specifically assigned roles. Within the Sanders Sides universe, I think this should be assumed to be Roman’s writing and creation. Given Roman’s affinity for acting and the fact that the Sides were essentially stepping back into fictional roles they filled previously, I personally believe that the Shorts of that time should be read as the Sides acting the characters Roman had already created rather than specifically summoning “new” sides. Again, Roman’s affinity for acting should also be taken into account because given the choice, he’d likely pick acting a role himself rather making someone to do it.

However, season 2 of Sanders Sides brought about a change, both in Sanders Sides and Sanders Shorts. The characters in Sanders shorts were re-simplified, theoretically to create dissonance, so the Logic/Teacher in Sanders shorts would no longer be assumed to be Logan, the Anxiety character no longer read as Virgil, the Prince would no longer automatically translate to Pryce, and the Dad character no longer read as Patton. Thus, Teal, Andy, Dyad, and possibly Pryce were born. It makes sense in context of the series to create that separation so Sanders Sides could exist independently of Sanders Shorts. However, what didn’t make sense to me for a while, was why specifically Teal, Andy, and Dyad were so different from the “original characterized versions” of the Sides as they were previously played. (I couldn’t find enough content on Pryce after the specific Sides outfit change in season two to definitely make a conclusion about his change.)

Teal doesn’t have the humor or sass that the teacher character that later became became Logan had. Andy doesn’t have the “villainous” aura that the anxiety character that became known as Virgil had. Dyad is probably the most interesting to distinguish because he lacks some of the lasting care the the character that became Patton had, but added in a new level of destructiveness. These are effectively new characters, seperate from the Dad, Teacher, and Anxiety characters that were played previously. In fact, the Shorts sides are even being labeled with what they represent, something that was unnecessary before. Even more interesting was that Teal was labeled with “Logic,” further separating him from the teacher character and actually pushing him closer to Logan in some ways.

So while I believe that from the perspective of the Sanders Sides universe the Teacher, Dad, Prince, and Anxiety characters in the shorts were personified versions of Logan, Patton, Roman, and Virgil, created by Roman (and probably played by the sides themselves); I also believe that Teal, Dyad, Pryce, and Andy are re-personified characters based specifically on a narrow interpretation of the Sides, specifically Remus’ interpretation.

Let’s look first at Dyad. He completely personifies the idea of a stereotypical dad, he’s nearly unshakably jovile, and gives off an aura of insincerity. Even the kind things he does as a fatherly character are usually undercut by his revealing an unfortunate truth or acting in a way that is selfish. In the Sanders short, [“If You Just Believe”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FFiGqCNBxnn0%3Ft%3D180&t=ZDZlNjRhZGRlZDMyOWI3YmRlMzIxMWQyM2FkNmNkNmM2Mjc2NzQ0MSxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) Dyad gives hope to children that, “Maybe one day-” they could see the UPS man (a play on many children wanting to see Santa) and though it could have ended there, Dyad dashes the children’s hope with the line “but probably not.” Dyad effectively ruins their hope with his “fatherly honesty” that did not take the children’s emotional states into account.

Teal, as opposed to Dyad, is the most subtly different to the character he is derived from. Teal specifically lacks the Teacher character’s impatience with having to fill the adult role and his affinity for naps. Teal is also a bit cold, impatient, and gets straight to the point. Yet, he also lacks Logan’s well-researched factual backing, acting more as a logical “common sense” than the unicorn onesie wearing, crofter loving Side we know. Instead, Teal relies on society’s generalized standards of what “should” and “shouldn’t” be. In the recent Sanders shorts episode, “[Give Me the Proper Motivation,](https://thatsthat24.tumblr.com/post/625918160808394752/give-me-the-proper-motivation)” Teal chastised c2!Thomas for not putting away his clothes properly. The reasons he gave were that the clothes would become wrinkled and the room appears to be a mess. Yet, he didn’t actually explain why those things were problems the way Logan would have. Instead his arguments were somewhat dismissed as useless and unnecessary.

As I said in [Part 1](https://treeni.tumblr.com/post/626224262547652608/sanders-sides-theory-the-sides-that-arent-pt-1), Andy is very different from Virgil. He’s generally calm, collected, lacks the anxiety and general angst that Virgil portrays. Andy is even shown to [ramble](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FNP4ar_GOHfM%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzsVnpy2-a8-XQ8kfJTuDwhV%26t%3D225&t=NDg0ZWEzZmUyZGMzOWYxMmNmY2Y0YTVhY2Q3ZDdhZGYxMTdlMTljMixlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) in a way that would be completely uncharacteristic of Virgil who it often seems a struggle for him to speak at all. Really the only similarities between them from the audience’s perspective is that they are both willing to use scare tactics to get their respective c!Thomases to do what they want. However, even that’s changed because Virgil tries to hold back from scaring c!Thomas and the others since being accepted (unless he’s proving a point that he can still do it) because his contributions and opinions being treated as part of the conversation, rather than a hindrance to progression is much more effective in finding an acceptable solution. Andy’s like an idealized version of Virgil, one whose relaxed, happy with themselves and their position, and ultimately unaffected by what c2!Thomas thinks of him.

So why would Remus create these specific characterizations? A destructive fatherly character, a useless logical character, and a generally calm anxiety character? From what we’ve seen of the Sides initial reactions to Remus, Patton immediately rejected Remus in fear and Remus initially took cruel enjoyment out of it as if it were vengeful against a “father” who rejected him. Thus, creating the destructive father perception. Logan showed no fear of Remus, but still acted in total opposition to him. Yet, Logan should be the one “lightside” who really knows better, who already rejects the idea of absolutes in regards to good or bad, yet Logan continued to stand against him like a pest. To Remus, Logan’s logic is short-sighted and useless because he doesn’t “get” Remus the way he should. He’s missing the bigger picture and focusing on the details. Thus, a useless Logic. Then there’s Virgil, the friend Remus once had, the one he has known for years. As I said previously in part one, Andy is basically the calm persona Virgil tried to display, maybe to the darksides too. Even Andy’s rambling makes sense if you consider Remus’ view of Virgil’s fears as nonsensical. I also think Andy’s portrayal is so positive compared to the others because Remus sees Virgil’s usefulness. I also suspect he sees Virgil’s acceptance into the lightsides as temporary and that Virgil will be back at Remus’ side when the lightsides inevitably reject him the way Remus was rejected.

On top of that, Teal and Andy were shown to work seemingly flawlessly together toward a singular goal that pushed c2!Thomas into doing something he didn’t want to do. While that’s typically the opposite of how Sanders Sides goes as the sides dispute trying to help Thomas do/get what he wants, from an outside perspective, a skewed and even jealous perspective, it makes sense that’s exactly how the darksides see them. In fact, Virgil initially saw the lightsides as a functional unit as well, usually speaking to the group rather than the individual (except when trading insults with Roman) until he started to get to know them on an individual basis. 

Interestingly, the audience tends to assume that Janus and Remus will work together flawlessly too, despite never having seen the two actually interact because the audience is seeing things from the lightsides perspective making the darksides the “united other,” the same way the darksides likely see the lightsides. In fact, assuming there is no discourse between the darksides is quite short sighted considering how much there is between the lightsides even as they remain friends. Why would the darksides be any different? Plus, we know there is drama surrounding Virgil’s abandonment of them.

Though it may sound as if I’m making a lot of assumptions and reaches without much hard evidence, there is actually some physical proof within the series that backs up the idea that Remus created and summoned simplified versions of the lightsides somewhere within the darksides realm of the mindscape.

That proof is named Janus.

Or, at least his acting.

The first piece of evidence is that we know that Janus has access to the sides old clothing in the darksides of the mindscape, the Shorts sides clothes. Janus accidentally uses Logan’s old tie, Teal’s tie, while trying to impersonate Logan in [“Selfishness vs Selflessness.”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FiauvHYa21G8%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D145&t=OTBkNmQ1MzdiNGU4YzE1NjQ4MzA3YTc2YTRiZDFlZmU0YTBlZTE0OCxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) If he was trying to impersonate Logan, why did he make that mistake? It’s not as if it’s something easily hidden and the tie he wears regularly isn’t something that’s up for interpretation. It’s just outwardly a mistake. Yet, it’s not one that really makes sense on his own to have made. If his acting was based on his own observations in watching the others it would have been obvious he had the wrong tie. Logan’s tie is iconic and deeply tied with his characterization, plus Janus immediately played “Logan” as prideful and called himself “brilliant.” We as the audience knows Logan is brillant, but Logan would never say it so openly. It was a detail that immediately jumped out to onlookers as a mischaracterization with the both the Sides (and likely most of the audience) recognizing it was Janus in disguise immediately. On top of that, his body language in general is weird as he attempts to play Logan. His shoulder’s back and arms crossed in a way that seems self-aggrandizing and smug, like a bad imitation of the relaxed, but straight posture that Logan normally takes.

Then in[ “Can Lying Be Good?”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FN2d4oti_eBo%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D875&t=NzI4YmIzY2M1YmNkNTBmZTIxYmRhNGZiNTY4YjhkNTg3YzA3MDM1MSxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) when he was acting as “Patton” he attributed the idea of where babies come from to baby-carrying messenger falcons instead of storks. Thankfully it was a mistake he made in front of the audience alone, as the other Sides were too preoccupied to call him out on it. Yet, the fact that he made that mistake specifically speaking to himself, it means that Janus truly believed it was something Patton would say. He wasn’t just performing for the other sides, he was trying to stay in character even when eyes were turned away from him. Throughout the episode his characterization of “Patton” is weird, and seemingly slightly hostile under a fake smile of kindness. The audience feels weird watching it because it’s so devoid of the kindness the real Patton usually intends. While Janus’ portrayal was weird overall, he made several small mistakes that people who were familiar with the series and familiar with the Side (like the other sides) would have caught onto if they hadn’t been otherwise preoccupied. (It was also right in some ways the audience was unfamiliar with at the time, but I’ll get to that in another theory.) On top of that, he also wore Patton’s old cardigan rather than his new cat hoodie, a mistake that no one acknowledged, but was the case nonetheless.

So why did Janus make the mistakes he did? Was he working from his own memories? Well, we know his appearance was a shock, but not a complete one to the lightsides. The only one who was truly hostile at first was Virgil (and then Logan, but only after Janus physically silenced him). Yet, there is an implied separation between the lightsides and the darksides. Patton, Logan, and Roman knew Virgil when he was still acting as the antagonist, Roman recognized him immediately, and yet the lightsides knew almost nothing actually about him. I believe we should assume all of the darksides have had the same amount of separation from the lightsides, not something that has existed forever, but has gone on for several years (or longer). Given that Janus never appeared in the Shorts prior to his appearance in season 2 of Sanders Sides, we shouldn’t assume that he interacted with the Sides much during that time even before Sanders Sides started.

How is Janus able to characterize Logan and Patton at all then? Does he innately know what they’re like as both they and he are all a part of Thomas? Well, no, because he wouldn’t have made mistakes then. The Sides seem to be shown to have to learn about each other naturally, much in the same way that people learn about each other. Did his characterizations come from him observing from a distance? Well, yes, some actually. We know from the trial that he’s been watching Virgil as he was able to quote him directly (even mimicking him in his own drawl) in [“Selfishness vs Selflessness.”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FiauvHYa21G8%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D1166&t=Njk5NWY4OTRiYTg3YWM3YmFjNjk2NDBlY2ZmMTg2NDQ2ZjA2MmI0ZSxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) But his perfect impersonation of Virgil makes a lot of sense given how long they were probably together and how close they seem to have once been. If he was watching in the time before his appearance (and especially before Virgil’s acceptance) as self-preservation it was likely he was watching over Virgil specifically. However, Janus’ characterization of Patton and attempt at characterizing Logan were better than simply “not paying attention to them.”

So where did he get his flawed characterizations from? Well, I think he practiced. With the specific separation between the lightsides and darksides it’s unlikely he was able to hang around the source of his inspiration much. Yet, Janus’ preparedness nearly rivals that of Logan with the arguments he came ready with during [“Selfishness vs Selflessness”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FiauvHYa21G8%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D1780&t=YWFhNzJiYzc5NjQ1MzJiMDhhZTk3YWIxMWQxOWY1Y2I4YzFhMmZmMixlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) and [“Can Lying Be Good?”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FN2d4oti_eBo%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D217&t=N2E2OTljOTg4YzVmOTFjOTJhYmNlMGNmMDE0YWRkZjFhNDgzMTE4OSxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) He likely would have practiced quite a bit in trying to prepare. In those two particular episodes, the lightsides (and we as the audience) likely weren’t even supposed to know he was there. If he had characterized them properly, ideally he would have been able to push his own agenda in the guise of the Side he was portraying. So again, if he’s not around them, how did he play them?

Again, he practiced, and lucky for him he has a handy dandy Creativity to summon up “Sides” for him to practice on. It would be easy for him wouldn’t it? Create the “Sides” for Janus to observe and practice with (even donning the actual Sides old clothes!) Thus, the creation of the Short sides as we know them. It would be easy for him to forget about the outfit change, if he became used to seeing the “Sides” in the old clothes. Yet, I think how “wrong” Dyad, Andy, and Teal are compared to the characters they are based on speaks volumes for how Remus sees them. Their limitedness however I think is a sign of Remus’ limitation as creativity (and possibly purposeful satirization of the Sides because would he be Remus if he wasn’t making fun of them a little?)

So Janus’ mistakes seemed so off, but not completely wrong characterizations because I think they were some unholy conglomeration between the Sides as Janus likely once knew them, as he’s observed (with his likely limited observations) and his practice in imitating fakes made by Remus. If he interacted with or even simply watched the lightsides often, he wouldn’t have made the mistakes that he did (Remember, this is the side that can spout of philosophy nearly as well as Logan can and we should assume that SvS was improvisation given his initial plan was to imitate Logan) Yet, the Sides only likely gained “specific outfits” as they were characterized in Sanders Shorts (and Sanders Sides for the darksides) despite the fact that we know they’ve been around for a long time as Roman specifically referenced what Virgil was like during Thomas’ teenage “angst” phase in [“Moving On Pt: 1,”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FihCqpkPNtNM%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D747&t=NzdkZmVhYjMxOTc3NjZhZTVjZjZlZWU1MmE1MDZiZmQ1OWNjYzRmYyxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) long before he started making videos. So the fact that Janus accidentally wore Logan and Patton’s old clothes, Teal and Dyad’s clothes, is fairly telling, as if he got too used to seeing it. In fact, Janus has focused quite a lot about the differences between the sides old and new outfits, as he even “complimented” the change in Roman’s attire and the amount of makeup Virgil wears. It’s as if the outfit differences were a shock to him, something immediately noticeable because he became too used to seeing the old clothes.

As a side note, we also know that clothes are important in Sanders Sides. The clothes themselves have meaning. In [“Can Lying Be Good?”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FN2d4oti_eBo%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D1389&t=MTM0ZjZlNzUyOTI4ZWVlOWZiNmNmNTZmYWY5ZTZiNGM4NTU2YmJmMSxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) (aka, Janus’ entrance) c!Thomas wears a t-shirt with a skull that is half covered in white and half an amorphous conglomeration of flowers in multiple colors. That alone wouldn’t necessarily mean much, except towards the end of the video when he decides to accept learning more about himself, the shirt changes. Suddenly c!Thomas is in a shirt that the entire skull is made up of the multicolored flowers. The differences between the Sides old and new outfits aren’t just aesthetic either, they’re representative. Patton and Roman’s outfits just sort of became emphasized versions of what they already wore, the two sides that went through the least amount of lasting character-development to that point. In fact, on Patton the only thing that changed really was his logo until Logan later gave him the cat hoodie in [“Moving On Pt. 2,”](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2Fm-PMR1TDMQk%3Flist%3DPLYA7DZ_sbUzvB1l6KsO5LZV2rrk2u1xl4%26t%3D909&t=MGE1NWFlOThiZDQ1ZDQ4Mjc2NzczOTc4NTBjYjQzZWZiNTc4NmEzYSxlb0xJSTRacA%3D%3D&b=t%3Aew6m3M_sbBKBhnK9rQSrTw&p=https%3A%2F%2Ftreeni.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F626840818899140608%2Fthe-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides&m=0&ts=1598347939) two full episodes after the other’s change. Roman’s added glam was likely linked to his feelings of success as c!Thomas made huge developments in his creative career. Virgil’s hoodie went through a drastic change because he had as well, the mishmash of patterns and fabric shows a lot of Virgil’s inner state as he tried to reconcile his broken ideology of what he thought the lightsides were vs what they turned out to be. Finally, Logan’s change was subtle, but so is he. His outfit was updated, but the biggest and most telling change was his tie which became patterned with layers of blue, white, and black stripes. The patterns added to Logan and Virgil’s clothes shows their depth and character growth as they were the two sides who went through the most character development between costume changes. While Virgil’s change was obvious to us and the other Sides as he learned to accept and be accepted by the lightsides, Logan’s was quieter. He had to learn to listen and consider the others. Logan went through a character arc as well in that time where he learned to consider the others’ perspectives and feelings. He still isn’t perfect at it, but he tries. (More on that another time.)

So, with that in mind and knowing how monumental the Sides’ outfits are to their characterization, the fact that Janus got the logos right, but key outfit pieces wrong shows a deep misunderstanding in his part of the Sides. It’s as if he sees their change as aesthetic only, likely interpreting them as much the same way as the Shorts sides act, superficial, limited, and one-dimensional. It’s essentially what Virgil also had to unlearn in his time with the lightsides before his acceptance. As he got to know them individually, he learned there was so much more to him than he thought, than the darksides thought. His realization that he was so fundamentally wrong about them and how they were guiding c!Thomas seems to be what drove Virgil to leave in the first place. If it’s not the lightsides who are the bad ones after all then it must be the darksides right?

Well no, but that’s a part of the current problem, the oversimplification of good and bad, right and wrong.

Janus had to let go of that mindset that the lightsides are one dimensional. Notice how well he portrays Logan in POF despite only a small amount of content coming out between SvS and POF. He gets the tie right this time for one. The guilty face and “oh shit” he murmurs when Logan reappears implies he has something to feel guilty for, as if the two had made progress off camera. He also admits to being impressed by Roman. Janus had to face the fact that Roman didn’t do what was expected. Pryce for example likely would have taken Janus’ side without hesitation. It was what Janus was counting on, afterall. Yet, Roman didn’t. Then we of course see the progress Patton and Janus make on camera.

So! Final review: 1. c!Thomas likely plays c2!Thomas as a character because if real Thomas’ Sanders Shorts videos exist within the Sanders Sides universe as fiction, the characters are likely their fiction as well. 2. The fact that c!Thomas can summon the Sides, makes me think he can summon the Shorts characters for his videos too, especially given that the Sides, Roman and Remus especially, seem to be able to summon what they want. 3. Dyad, Teal, Andy, and (likely) Pryce seem to be Remus’ limited interpretation of the Sides that particularly showcase the limitations of their stereotyped roles. 4. Janus likely practiced on the Shorts sides while trying to figure out how to act as the Sides when he showed up what was canonically at the time, the Shorts side’s clothing in trying to play the real Sides. 5. Janus only made progress once he let go of those simplified roles he imagined the Sides existing in and only made progress once he was open to understanding them as individuals instead of roles.

**Author's Note:**

> [Original Post](https://treeni.tumblr.com/post/626840818899140608/the-sides-that-arent-pt-2-the-shorts-sides)
> 
> P.S. This doesn’t really had much overall, but assuming both this and Pt. 1 are correct really reframes that particular short between Remy and Andy. (Sorry, I tried my best to link back to Thomas videos, but I couldn’t find that particular short scouring the shorts videos.) Because if Remy is a Side and Andy is a… lets say, oversimplification of someone who he knows, someone who basically doesn’t have the depth or emotional attachment to be reasoned with, it adds a lot of weight to Remy’s extreme reaction. Plus, it’s probably also just super weird to see a fake version of someone you know and in many cases is the stuff of horror films. (Surprise, surprise, very on brand for Remus right?)
> 
> Anyway, I attempted to create links to the specific moments of videos I was generally referencing. Please let me know if any of them are broken. Also, stay tuned as I get back on track with my theories with my Roman and Remus theory coming out soon. 
> 
> P. S. S. Yes, before anyone else tells me I do know @beauty-and-passion. I got half-way through their Janus playlist theory, found myself agreeing way too much and decided to pull back and haven’t read anything else since. I’m using the ability to read their theories as a motivator to finishing my own because I want to work directly with the content and my own observations before I work too much from other people’s perspectives (unlike my Orange Side and Creativity’s name theory where I kinda disproved other’s theories.) I just know I’ll come out of reading their observations with a million new ideas and perspectives and I know I want to work through my current ones first.
> 
> P.S.S.S.
> 
> Of course, I cannot mention Dyad without bringing forth “Dad’s Big Game Tips” where a Dad character set the house on fire. This predated the technical “shift” that came about in “Accepting Anxiety”, and yet, so did Remus theoretically. So I think it’s totally possible that this was still Dyad rather than Patton or the predating Dad character. I would actually consider this video the first really hard push at toeing the lines of what the stereotyped characters represented and what their limitations are without the character depth of the Sides. Given that “Dad’s Big Game Tips” takes place separately even from the shorts, c!Thomas (and real Thomas) had the ability to explore the character without it affecting either Sanders Sides or Sanders Shorts directly. For c!Thomas, I believe it was like an exploration of something he didn’t completely understand yet and used the long format to explore more in depth. (Possibly like Emile and Cartoon Therapy.) After all, what does Remus represent, but a shift in creative ideology for c!Thomas afterall? None of this is easily or cleanly mapped out, (As I said, fuzzy, I honestly tried, I had a chat and just… there’s so many videos), but based on trends I noticed.
> 
> As always thank you to @candied-peach for listening to my rabble as I worked my way through the main ideas of this. They’re amazing and you bet your butt I’m gonna promote their awesome works. Go read their stuff here!


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